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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Patricia Louise Butler 
May 3, 1992 
Cassette 4, Side 2 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:01 
What do you feel about, how do you feel about, not abortion itself, but, but having, having kids-- 
Well, not even having kids, maybe like, I don't know, having-- Well, I know how you feel about 
having more children than you can take care of, but with all the, the contraceptive devices 
available, you know, how do you feel about that, that area of abortion?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  00:30 
Well, religiously, I don't believe in it. But then again, since I'm a human, I do believe in it.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  00:43 
You think that, um, that, that people-- Do you think the girls have a choice? I mean more, I mean 
a choice as to whether they get pregnant or not. I mean, I don't see how you, you can get 
pregnant if you really don't want to. In the heat of the moment?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:05 
Wait a minute, what year were you born?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:07 
1961. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:09 
Well, shit. I guess you [?would think that?]. Think about that. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:13 
I mean-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:13 
Girl, you can go back to pioneer days. Think about that.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:16 
Well, back then, I could understand it okay.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:18 
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Well say, then, in this society, as it is now, you have a choice. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:22 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:23 
So, that's what pro-choice is about.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:27 
But girls still come up pregnant today, though, I mean. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:29 
That's because they haven't been loved and they want a doll to play with. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:33 
Yeah?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:33 
I mean, when you hear young women like I used to hear at Odessa Brown, I said, "Honey, what 
you having another baby for?" "Oh, baby, he was so cute," cute? And she got one already.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:46 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:47 
You would have thought cute wore off by then, but it hadn't.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:51 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  01:52 
So it must be something else. It's not the baby, is it?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  01:55 
I can remember when I was 17 and having my son too. It was that doll. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:01 
It was, it was cute. And your baby, girl, look at this baby.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:05 
Ain't he pretty?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:07 
[?Nothing else that man can do?].  
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:09 
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Unconditional love. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:10 
Unconditional love. But unconditional love means what as you got five years down the road?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:19 
Meant I wasn't having no more kids, not until maybe 35. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:24 
Well, no, unconditional love meant to you that somebody needs to help pay the child support and 
be there for that child.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:30 
Yep. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:32 
Because by five years into it, you are now realizing that this child's asking me some questions. 
Need some things that I can't-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  02:39 
This kid's wanting some things from me that I know I'm not-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  02:41 
That I can't get. And then, let me talk to somebody about it, where is that person? You see, and 
that, even as a wife, I will say, here you are, I'm alone. And when the kids were home, you know 
who was here? The kids and I were doing the yard. These trees at, these little in the pots, they're 
in the pots because before the concrete came up, we had them here with tulips in the front of 
them. And then daffodils, and then that, and we learned to rotate the, you know, the bulbs. And 
that was pretty. Well, daddy decided that he wanted to put up the concrete and all that kind of, 
fine. So he put them in pots for me, so there they are.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  03:26 
[Inaudible]? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  03:27 
No, we still got them. No, he respected my wishes. But what I'm saying is that's what we did to 
pass those hours when daddy was playing basketball, football, whatever it was. I had to pull that 
family together and keep it as a family, to do what was necessary, so that their house could look 
like they wanted it to, as close to it. I mean, look down the street, look at the neighborhood. 
Now, I can't do that [?by myself?]. And sitting indoors crying don't make it no better. And they 
did need to be tired enough that they didn't want to run the street. And part of that is a good 
night's sleep, so you know, when you're too bored to sleep, you do other things.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  04:07 
Yeah. 
 
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Patricia Louise Butler  04:08 
They say an idle mind is the devil's workshop. These lilies that I have, [inaudible] in the church, 
when he got active in the church, a lady had some flowers to give away and he had me take his 
daddy's car to go get those flowers, tulips, and those-- not tulips, lilies. So every time I look at 
those lilies, every year, I think of Victor. And honey, we have more lilies, and we had to give 
them away again.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  04:31 
[?Dang, for real?]? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  04:32 
Those are bulbs, yes, and bulbs multiply, and so you divide them. And now they're on this side 
of the house, and I think I, I've given some away, but that's what the lilies in the yard represent. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  04:45 
Everything here is part of you. It's like a, something that you can relate a certain time to or, you 
know? I mean, because it must be something to walk outside and look at something and say, hey, 
you know, start thinking about your son.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  05:00 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  05:00 
You know? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  05:02 
It just goes that way, you know. And the other thing, as you grow up, and when I worked for 
[?Bernice Rawls?] in surgery, Bernice worked in surgery, and she'd come home, and she was 
always stop [inaudible]-- didn't have the one, that one car, and when I didn't have the car, and 
Jerome would have it, I'd ride with Bernice. Okay, so Bernice always had to stop at the plant 
shop, or stop and do this, and stop and do that. And you'd think there would be a headache, but I 
watched what she was doing. And she'd buy plants a certain time for the yard, and she buy this, 
and she told me, she said, "Now Pat, you take this little bit of money, you gotta do a little of this 
and little of that. You gotta do all these different things." So, I began to understand what a wife's 
role was. And that's why I say the friends I have are different, they're not just sit down and gossip 
friends.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  05:47 
They're ones that will help you, to give you a hand. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  05:49 
They helped me to-- Yeah. And so you know, Bernice-- Mr. Moret. Now, the rhododendrons are 
in the back, you see, when the concrete went up, there's no plant, no flowers in the yard, so I still 
got to go back out in the front. There was a rhododendron on this side and one on that side, and I 
bought them from Mr. Moret because, you know, Children's Orthopedic sells plants. And I paid 
10 dollars a piece, oh that was a lot of money. They're in the backyard because I had Jerome 
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move them all the way back. They're in the back, finally, the man came to do some work, and I 
had him dig a hole and put the plants in so they're in the back. I'll show them to you later. But 
then I learned, now, what goes with those? Rhododendrons-- I mean, azaleas, and there's azaleas. 
I threw out one, but, you know, they died. The network is not that strong. So, but they've been 
moved. And you learn and so you begin to put your house together as you go to the plant shop, 
and this shop. And there's certain parts of the [?Sunday paper?], tell me they don't need the 
[?Sunday paper?]. I wonder, what do they do? Plant plants, buying clothes. They got to get in the 
car and always go to the store to know where the sale is. So you know, and then you begin to 
build a lifestyle [inaudible]. [Inaudible], there's no one plan from another to know which one to 
buy, which store to go to, or consistently go. But now you got [?TVs?], so you can see ads.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  07:22 
Are you a sales catcher? You catch this a lot of sales? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  07:26 
Sometimes sales on sales. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  07:31 
So I know you must have hit Frederick & Nelson when they went out, going out-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  07:34 
No, I used a different strategy with them.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  07:36 
Really?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  07:37 
I went there before. You know, they talked about they were going to close a year ahead of time. 
And when you see department stores, and a big store like that, closed after they just remodeled, 
you begin to wonder, what is the strategy of that? Everybody don't need to sell clothes. So the 
TV, I'll show you in the blue room, they closed the electronic departments. Time to go buy that 
TV now. I got it for 2-- it was $179. That beat market time. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:05 
Really?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:06 
I said, oh, it's gonna go down here, and I got that. And it's a good little set, remote control, cable 
ready. So now when Victor comes, the TV is in that room. He can look at TV, play with remote 
control. And I didn't clean up down there, I went and got everything I wanted to get before. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:29 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:30 
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Thanksgiving this year was my last stop. I got the coat, because I have on, got a new coat, trench 
coat. And then right after, day after Thanksgiving, yeah, I don't usually go shopping. I went to 
Fredericks this year, and I bought everything [?that day?]. My account had no high charges, was 
down 50 dollars. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:51 
Really? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:52 
Yes, it did. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  08:53 
That was pretty good. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  08:54 
I got the trench coat, got a new handbag. I had lunch while the cafe was still open. Oh, honey I 
got me some stretch pants, [inaudible], I got, oh, a new pair of shoes, [inaudible]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:10 
[Inaudible]. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:15 
But now, we got [inaudible]. They complain about the [inaudible]. I got the last of this 
[inaudible] in a new condition. [Inaudible]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:30 
Okay, I got a couple more questions to ask you. These are important. And this is about reflecting 
on your life, and what was one of the happiest times that you can remember? The most fulfilling. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:45 
When my husband gave me this diamond. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:46 
Really? Yeah, that must be nice. How old were you when you got that? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:53 
I think I was in my late forties. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:55 
Yeah?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:56 
I call this my [?purple heart?]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  09:57 
So there is hope? 
Page 7 of 21 
 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  09:58 
Yeah. And you know, it was really fulfilling because at, when I was at Odessa Brown, Kathy 
won at the racetrack. She bought a dinner ring and it had seven diamonds. [?And she bought her 
husband a ring, with a diamond?]. And she said, "Girl, you ought to go get that diamond you've 
been talking about you want." I said, "No. I want him to give it to me." And, I mean, I have a 
wedding band, and I just lost the emerald out of it, but I had bought the band. And it had chips of 
diamonds. But every time the diamond people would come on, you know Ben Bridge?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  10:31 
Uh-huh. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  10:31 
All my jewelry's from Ben Bridge. I'd said, "Jerome, do you see those diamonds [inaudible]? 
Look at that Jerome." I was a little [inaudible], but it was really wonderful because I just had my 
[inaudible] and I wanted to go with him. He had brought me, I'd been home, but I wasn't really 
driving. He said, "Oh no, I just got to go downtown. I'll be right back. You don't need to go." 
Vicky said, "Can I go?" And he said, "Yeah." So he took Victoria and he came back and he 
[inaudible]. He can keep a secret. And I guess my wedding anniversary was around that time too. 
So what he was [inaudible] about was Victoria said, "Yeah, Daddy, you can get it." And yeah, 
Ben Bridge said, "Yeah, you can have it." And so he brought me home my diamond.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:19 
Were you surprised?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:20 
Yeah. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:21 
And you didn't have the slightest idea what you was gonna get? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:25 
Mm-mm, there was nothing in mind that this man went to buy a diamond. Well, see if we had a 
tight budget, I would have known. I keep asking, "Well how much was it?" [Inaudible]. It's 
wonderful, I don't know how much [inaudible]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:41 
That is [inaudible]. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:44 
But see, it's like effective, parent effective training, you got to give the man some space. And my 
man is romantic. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  11:54 
Yeah. 
 
Page 8 of 21 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  11:56 
And it was really, it was a nice thing to happen. You know, that did a lot for the marriage. You 
know, you got to reconsider [?what you get for divorcing?]. [They laugh]. [?If you want it to be 
yours, the man paid for the diamond?]. Don't be going and divorcing him when he gonna get you 
these toys, because it's still a community property state. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  12:18 
What was, yeah, what was the most unhappiest time of your life? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  12:27 
Most unhappiest. Going through-- Well, I don't know, let me think on that. The most unhappiest 
time? I don't know, I think there were times that I was very, very immature. And I guess we had 
bought this house, and my husband used to say things like, "It was a fucking nightmare." And 
you know, that really said he wasn't ready to settle down, but I didn't take it that way. I took it 
very personally, and I think he asked for divorce a lot of times during that time, after the house, 
we bought the house. He just wasn't ready to settle down. And, you know, I couldn't understand 
that.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  13:22 
But he did, he stayed, I mean, he didn't-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  13:25 
Yeah, but see, then I also realized that wasn't nothing but lip service, and I was naive enough to 
buy it, and so it caused me to cry.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  13:35 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  13:36 
So that really wasn't a miserable time, you know, when you look back now. I think when the 
doctor told me I needed a breast biopsy, I think that was miserable because I, that-- It was 
because I thought I was gonna wake up from surgery, no bosom. That was a miserable time. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:01 
And how about menopause? I know my mom went through it about 45. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:07 
What's menopause, hot flashes and all that? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:09 
Yeah, I mean, did you ever--  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:11 
That's not miserable. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:13 
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Really? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:13 
Mm-mm, that's not miserable because in today's technology, it's like you're saying you have a 
choice in pregnancy. By the time you go get your this pill and that pill, it's not too bad. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:24 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:25 
You know you, if you kind of keep up with yourself, it's okay. I mean, if you can accept growing 
older, you know, one nice thing about it is you don't have to have menstruation. Hey, that's over. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:46 
And not worry about your body flipping out from it.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:49 
Right. From which, menstruation? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:52 
Menstruation.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  14:53 
Are you having cramps? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  14:56 
No, I always get the, I get grumpy. I have PMS real bad.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:02 
Everybody gets grumpy. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:03 
I mean, but real, like-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:04 
I'm not sure what that is. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:05 
And I eat a lot of sweets, about a week. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:09 
But everybody does.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:11 
Think so? 
 
Page 10 of 21 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:12 
Yeah, they either crave-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:13 
I would love to not crave food, though, if I didn't crave food-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:16 
Why? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:16 
Because then I would probably lose all the weight in the world. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:20 
Why you losing the weight, all the weight in the world? Because American society says we 
should?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:25 
No. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:26 
Does it make it healthy, healthier?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:28 
Yeah, that for me.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:30 
Not necessarily, the women back in the pioneer days were healthy.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:34 
Yeah, that's true. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:35 
They had more endurance. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:36 
Yeah, but I'd like to see myself at a certain weight, and then I feel okay. So I guess part of it with 
me is just feeling okay.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:45 
Well, incorporate it into your brain that if my mind is okay first, because on the average 
concentration camp, they're gonna break your mind before they break your body.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  15:54 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  15:56 
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So if you can keep your mind-- And if we've learned anything from soldiers that have been to 
concentration camps, they deal with illusions in the mind and build things to keep their mind 
alive. And if they do try to beat you in the head [inaudible], so you want to hold on to your mind. 
Well then in some ways, this wonderful ideal weight that you say that you want, not necessarily 
is right, wrong, or whatever. But hold on to your mind. I think that's more important than body. 
And hey, I'm a body type girl, need 21-inch waist, you know, 14 pairs of shoes with umbrella 
cases and purses to match. Yeah, I do, I do believe in the body. And you know June? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  16:48 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  16:49 
June's a minister's wife. And June be counting those calories, talking about the carbohydrates and 
stuff. And I tell her, you know, I think it's [?grudgy?] that you do all that. But in doing it, all the 
stuff we learn from [?man,]? when you go back to [inaudible], you ain't counting those 
carbohydrates, and they're not all fat. So you first gotta have peace of mind. And when you have 
peace of mind, you don't eat-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  17:11 
Everything else, yeah, you're right. You are absolutely right. But see, it's during that time around 
my period. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:18 
Is it natural that you should do that because the body has a need--  
 
Antoinette Johnson  17:22 
For the things that you're craving? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:24 
--for the things that you're craving? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  17:27 
Yep, that's what my mom told me. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  17:29 
You know, I have never craved peaches, the way I did when I was pregnant. I mean, we bought 
them by the case, I've never had a desire for a peach like I did. But I do like apple pie and peach 
pie, but that's the only time in my whole life. And when I was menstruating, it wasn't about 
sweets. I don't know what I craved, but I know I was irritable, so [inaudible]. But I don't 
remember cravings.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  17:59 
I always crave sweets.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:01 
But I hear a lot of the younger women crave sweets, or water, or salty foods, or whatever.  
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Antoinette Johnson  18:06 
When I get the sugar, I'm fine.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:08 
And that's what you need to do, have your sugar then, instead of fight, going against the grain. If 
this is a normal thing, then try to just do it in moderation. But if you need the sweets honey, then 
you need to [?buy your like?]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:23 
I get like light things like, like whipped topping if I'm going to have strawberry shortcake, I'll get 
the angel food cake and some [inaudible]. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:30 
You like angel food cake? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:31 
I love angel food cake on strawberry shortcake. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:33 
[Inaudible] that sponge bread and sponge cake. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:35 
It's good. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:35 
But it's cool, [inaudible] you like it, and once in a while I've tasted it, and it's been okay. But-- 
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:43 
I set it up with some light ice cream and some strawberries and get me some whipped topping, 
and I'm fine.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:49 
Would you believe I haven't eaten today?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:51 
Really?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:51 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  18:52 
Busy? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:54 
No, I didn't have to cook for Jerome, remember?  
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Antoinette Johnson  18:56 
Yeah, oh, that's right.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  18:58 
I'd be real slim, huh?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:01 
Do you guys always sit down and have your meals together?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  19:03 
[?Yes we do, it's part of my?] [inaudible]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:05 
Breakfast and dinner?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  19:07 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:07 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  19:08 
I believe you should eat together, because that is a good time to talk about whatever. Maybe 
that's why we don't have a budget and sit down and play with a budget, because we still eat at the 
table.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:21 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  19:22 
Remember we, I told you we took the leaf out the table, leaf was in this. And when it got so he 
wanted to eat in the living room on a TV tray, you know, I sat back and looked at that and 
realized that the kitchen was falling apart. I told you, I did a face job on it. Part of that was he 
didn't like the environment he had to eat in, and I'm fighting him about, "Don't take that TV tray 
in. You know we don't do that." So I took my [?X?] of money and did that. Now, if he was a man 
that was in control of my check, I couldn't have made that decision.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  19:58 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:00 
But since I was in control of my check, and since I went to the credit union, I could do a face job. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:07 
Yeah. 
Page 14 of 21 
 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:08 
And he could bitch about it. But you know, he's still eating in our kitchen again.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:15 
Do you ever see yourself without him, I mean? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:20 
[?I do see myself without him?] [inaudible]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:22 
Yeah. I mean, it's like, after a certain time, you become part of each other. You know, you lay 
down every night and you know he's there. You get up in the morning-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:35 
[?Two a.m. he's downstairs?]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:36 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:39 
[?It's a terrible thing?]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:41 
I mean, to me, that would be my biggest fear about staying with somebody for so long.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:46 
Oh, don't do that to yourself. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:49 
Because I'm gonna wake up one morning and they're gonna be gone.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:52 
No, don't do that to yourself, girl. Think about these precious moments.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  20:58 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  20:59 
That's like not ever going to a concert because it's over. Honey, you'll have some memories.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  21:05 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:06 
And then a day that [inaudible] [?the best of the few years that he had?], that were yours.  
Page 15 of 21 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  21:14 
Yep. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:16 
Honey, yeah, hold on, don't be talking about, "Because he won't be there." And that's for change. 
So you're doing all those things that make you happy to create change. And see, I'm silly enough 
now I went through Nordstroms. I tell you I spent 96 dollars in Nordstrom yesterday?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  21:35 
Unh-uh. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:35 
Honey, I'm coming back because he needs a new nightgown. The lingerie department is my 
thing. And I've often thought of some of the strip teases [inaudible]. I got a girlfriend that knows 
how to belly dance. Woo, my Lord. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  21:52 
We have so much in common. I love lingerie.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  21:55 
Oh, I love it. And that was the department when the lady asked me, "Which one do you want to--
" I didn't bring that much money, thank god I had a [?husband?] [they laugh]. He said, "One 
thing about it is, your lingerie was in good shape." 
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:08 
Yep.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:09 
And Victoria says, "Mommy, mine been getting better shape," because I buy for her on discount.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:15 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:16 
Oh, the tables in the living room, I can remember, Fredericks.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:20 
Really? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:20 
Yeah, because every time they had a sale, I'd wait for that sale, and soon as I worked that day, I'd 
go find what I had my mind on, because you can only buy a discount the day you worked. Wasn't 
a permanent employee. Most folks are down there buying underwear and stuff like that, honey, 
you should have seen me going to the furniture [?supply?], because I need those three tables and-
- 
Page 16 of 21 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:40 
[Inaudible] on it.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:42 
Yeah, I was on it.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:43 
So you really, you really work at trying to keep your surroundings-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:47 
Pleasant. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:48 
And see, and that, you know, my home, to me is, that's where I go. That's my refuge. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  22:53 
That's it. And when you talk to a lot of your friends, they don't have a place to go. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  22:57 
I know, I know, I don't-- It's like that, unh-uh, I go home. That's where I have kind of, you know, 
everything's like I fixed it, like I want it, you know. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:05 
Yeah, like you want it. That's your--  
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:07 
My little nieces and nephews come over and I die. I mean, because it's not anything fabulous, but 
they-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:14 
It's yours. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:15 
Yeah, they run them up, and I thought something was wrong with me. And finally, I just sat 
down one day and accepted it. This is, hey, this is where I live.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:23 
This is yours. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:24 
That's the only-- That's where I go when I want some peace.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:27 
And see, you can go home when you can't go nowhere else. And maybe that's why I don't 
identify with the question, "When did your kids leave home?" Because you never leave home.  
Page 17 of 21 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  23:40 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  23:40 
You may have moved, but home is home. And if your house break down, and in fact, at dinner 
the other day, I told Jerome, I said, "You know, our house is the last family house around here. 
We're the oldest." And so that means when, this incident down there in California? If they had to 
burn Victor's house down, Victor's room is still upstairs. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:05 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:06 
You know what I'm saying? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:07 
Your son is down there, isn't he? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:09 
Yeah. And you call him, you call and ain't nobody answering the phone but the answering 
machine. Oh, hi, it's that time of year. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:22 
How did you feel when all that stuff popped up in Los Angeles?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:25 
I felt terrible. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:26 
Were you, were you afraid for him?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:27 
Yeah, because he's too [?far away?].  
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:29 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:31 
But, you know, because he is [inaudible], he had somebody down there-- Compton, is that what 
the action was? Don't ask me what Victor had to go all the way to Compton for when he lives in 
Redmond, California. Honey, I [?wanted to call?], then we called Vicky one day and asked her, 
and she reached him. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  24:49 
Yeah. 
Page 18 of 21 
 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  24:49 
Well, I talk to Victoria every morning. You know, if she hasn't woken me up by seven, I wake 
her up. And she said, "I found it." She had [inaudible] phone number. Because, you know, 
tomorrow's their birthday. Because they, she said, "I had to find my brother for my birthday." 
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:00 
I know that's right. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:06 
I said, "Okay." But she asked me today, had I talked to him? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:14 
How did you feel about-- I know, for me, this is like the first thing that's ever happened in my 
lifetime that I've been aware of. Because I was young when Martin Luther King died, too young 
to know what was going on, and Kennedy. But when this thing cropped up, I was, it felt bad. 
Like for the first two days, I stressed out so bad, I got this cold sore on my face. But I felt, I was 
mad. You know? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:39 
What were you angry about? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:40 
I was, it was like, what they did was just a slap in the face. That verdict they-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:46 
I agree with you, [?1954?].  
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:47 
Oh, man. That hurt. I mean, it was like, under all the anger was pain. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:49 
Real pain.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:52 
Yeah, and I have never felt that way before, ever-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  25:57 
And you don't even know them. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  25:59 
--about any, no, I don't. I'm like, what did they, it's like what did they do that to us for? Why? 
You know? And I was, oh, man, for, I think only today I really-- yesterday I start feeling a little 
bit at ease about it, because I know that they're going to have to do something now, but. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  26:31 
Page 19 of 21 
 
They? Who's they? 
 
Antoinette Johnson  26:31 
The federal government, unless he wants, you know, all hell to break--  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  26:19 
Oh, government is going to make some gestures. What we have to do, is we keep removing that 
from us.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  26:31 
Uh-huh.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  26:31 
What is it I have to do? I have to keep encouraging them to be strong. And to raise that 
[inaudible] understand [inaudible]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  26:39 
Yes, yes. And I made him, we sat-- And I didn't have to make him sit either. We sat through the 
whole thing, and all day we sat there. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  26:47 
And you see, that's what's more important than the rally. The rally is good for all those that are 
single, but for those who have, have to reach back and have some of those family conversations, 
to talk about it.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  27:07 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  27:07 
To plant seeds for the next generation. The federal government's going to do what he has to do 
because he got rules and regulations of bureaucratic society [inaudible]. It's a bureaucratic 
society, so he has to do that. But we need to look at that as to, what can we do about that?  
 
Antoinette Johnson  27:24 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  27:24 
Unfortunately, we may even have to go to an underground movement. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  27:27 
Yeah, you think it'll, it'll, it'll come down to that? 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  27:33 
No, I think our underground movement's late.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  27:54 
Page 20 of 21 
 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  27:37 
Because it should have been-- We should have in place, and I guess I always feel this way, as the 
Chinese and the Japanese have [?all 10?]. Is there a treasured allegiance to one another? We 
don't do enough of that. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  27:54 
We don't though. That's why-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  27:55 
[Inaudible] because we help each other. If there ain't no more than one lady telling me that she 
wants to learn how to use computers, [inaudible] tell me how and I'll help.  
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:13 
Yeah.  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:13 
No more than-- It's not my job to tell you to go buy a computer. [Inaudible]. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:26 
I think that's why I'm so, not real close to a lot of people, because I don't, I don't, I'm not a 
gossiper type. That's, I mean, it's just to me, it's-- 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:37 
But, you know, you can talk about people's problems without gossiping. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  28:41 
Right, right. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  28:43 
And in doing that, like-- Vivian lived in that house, the one right there, the white one. And when 
she'd see me come back with Jerome, we'd go walk. And we talked about a lot of, she said, 
"How'd you put up with [?that man?]?" By the way, the siding still ain't up, but he works on it. 
It's been 10 years he's working on this project, and I guess I should be uptight. But, you know, 
within that 10 years, and maybe that's selfish, I've gotten some of the things I wanted to do, and 
in that, I'm saying, "This is something you wanted to do for the way your house looks when you 
walk up to it."  
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:19 
Yeah. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:20 
I can't do everything for you. My other girlfriend, on the other hand, she's saying, "I don't know 
how you can look at that. It should bother you." Yeah, it bothers me, but I can't do it. He has to. 
That's his project. You know, he has to take responsibility for that. 
Page 21 of 21 
 
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:38 
Have you already-- Have you taken this approach with your kids too?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:40 
Yeah, basically. And you have to take that, because he does it. [Inaudible], you made that 
decision to go back to school, not me, and you learn it even better. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:55 
Do you think you guys have taught each other a lot?  
 
Patricia Louise Butler  29:58 
Yes. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  29:58 
I mean, just. 
 
Patricia Louise Butler  30:01 
And you know, when Victoria talks about her boyfriend, [inaudible], for breakfast. And she said 
the girls were telling her that, "Yeah, she should get rid of that boy, because you guys haven't 
gotten married." And girl, one girl said, "Well, what she needs is a referral." So the other day, I 
asked Victoria, I said, "How many referrals have the girls sent you?" We haven't sent her any, 
but they will quickly tell her she needs to make a change. 
 
Antoinette Johnson  30:35 
Yeah. Okay, we'll stop there. 
 